Forum - Puck L Towbar puzzle - there must be a simple answer

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Puck L Towbar puzzle - there must be a simple answer

in Anything Eriba-related Mon May 23, 2016 10:20 am
by rambling robin (deleted)

A bit of guidance and advice would be appreciated - sorry but I am totally new to towing and a bit puzzled by Eriba electrics.

Hoping to get a Puck L - external as locker so oldish model.
It will have to have a leisure battery for power-mover - so need to be able to charge when towing/on the move
Will also want to be able to run fridge on the move - from car electrics I assume. Yes I know I can just pack the fridge with a few frozen gel packs - but still need to charge the L battery...........so it makes sense to use power from car.

I propose to fit an Alko hitch for security and stability

Looking at Witter site for my proposed tow car - 2005-2010 model Kia Sportage Diesel Auto 4wd I see

Towbar
Fixed Flange Towbar (upgradeable to a detachable)

Z11 Witter Heavy Duty - (Black Finish) INCLUDED

Z13 AL-KO Towball + £18.90

Towbar with 7-pin Vehicle Specific Single Electrics INCLUDED £368.78

This vehicle specific kit is a high quality bespoke 12N 7 pin electric kit. It contains all the components necessary to provide all legal light functions required for towing in the UK. It will integrate with your vehicle and all model associated towing related user benefits.

Towbar with 7-pin Vehicle Specific Twin Electrics £456.48

This electric kit package comprises of a high quality bespoke 12N and Universal 12S 7 pin kit, also known as a double or twin electric kit. The kit contains all the components necessary to provide all legal light functions required for towing in the UK and all the components necessary to provide full power supply and reverse light functions to UK specification caravans built before 2009.

So, in order to provide correct electrics to van when towing - including charging leisure battery - would I be looking at the Twin Electrics kit? I guess so but any information or advice gratefully received.

Incidentally
KIA actually do a towbar and electrics kit with 13 pin Wiring Harness
SL09236050
£320.00

13pin, 12n, plug in wiring harness, with rear parking sensor cancellation, to control lights on trawler/caravan.

plus
13 pin wiring supplemental

AC09236050
£90.00

13pin, 12s, plug in supplemental wiring harness for additional power feed to operate fridge, TV, microwave etc. in a caravan, use with YN09236050.

Surely it cannot that complicated????????? for just a little van...........

RE: Puck L Towbar puzzle - there must be a simple answer

in Anything Eriba-related Mon May 23, 2016 10:33 am
by Pepé Le Pew •

| 2.752 Posts

If I were you I would get the car fitted with 13 pin electrics.

A 13 pin-equipped car is backwards compatible with older 7 pin twin caravan electrics by using an inexpensive adaptor, but a car with 7 pin twin electrics is not fully forwards compatible with a 13 pin van.

I think you might regret it if you were to change to a newer 13 pin caravan later on.

.

yy-R56kh

Aaron Calder, and sibillini like this post!

Last edited Mon May 23, 2016 10:35 am | Scroll up

RE: Puck L Towbar puzzle - there must be a simple answer

in Anything Eriba-related Mon May 23, 2016 10:58 am
by Aaron Calder •

| 3.834 Posts

I agree with Pete. 13 pin is the only sensible option as UK manufacturers have now all adopted the superior Continental system.

I use an adaptor when towing my trailer.

Forum Administrator
2003 Triton 420 and Audi A4 2.0Tfsi S-line SE Cabriolet

Last edited Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:32 pm | Scroll up

RE: Puck L Towbar puzzle - there must be a simple answer

in Anything Eriba-related Mon May 23, 2016 1:27 pm
by rambling robin (deleted)

Thanks for the info - I had poked around a number of threads on this topic and indeed 13 pin does seem to make sense. What was puzzling me was that Witter did not automatically offer a 13 pin system in their configuration for this vehicle. They do a universal one:-

Universal full function 13 pin kit with bypass & smart charge relays http://www.witter-towbars.co.uk/product_...?partNo=Z21A/13

Would this be OK with a 13/7 adapter?

Sorry to sound so thick...............

RE: Puck L Towbar puzzle - there must be a simple answer

in Anything Eriba-related Mon May 23, 2016 2:33 pm
by Aaron Calder •

| 3.834 Posts

PF Jones are one of the top UK specialists and no doubt they will advise you. Have a look here

I used a local, well-respected towbar fitter and had the Audi factory optional Westfalia system retrofitted plus dedicated electrics but it was expensive and I had a couple of problems that had to be sorted. It's easier to do this with a local company.

Whatever you do, don't go to your car's main dealer as they will farm the work out to a contractor and then add their percentage on top. Cut out the middleman and use the contractor yourself.

Be aware that due to the complexity of modern car electrics, you may need dedicated electrics and a software download to enable such things as trailer stability control programs. Universal systems may not allow these to work.

Forum Administrator
2003 Triton 420 and Audi A4 2.0Tfsi S-line SE Cabriolet

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Last edited Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:32 pm | Scroll up

RE: Puck L Towbar puzzle - there must be a simple answer

in Anything Eriba-related Mon May 23, 2016 3:48 pm
by Pepé Le Pew •

| 2.752 Posts

Quote: Aaron Calder wrote in post #5
PF Jones are one of the top UK specialists and no doubt they will advise you. Have a look here

I used a local, well-respected towbar fitter and had the Audi factory optional Westfalia system retrofitted plus dedicated electrics but it was expensive and I had a couple of problems that had to be sorted. It's easier to do this with a local company.

Whatever you do, don't go to your car's main dealer as they will farm the work out to a contractor and then add their percentage on top. Cut out the middleman and use the contractor yourself.

Be aware that due to the complexity of modern car electrics, you may need dedicated electrics and a software download to enable such things as trailer stability control programs. Universal systems may not allow these to work.

I'd agree with all this, especially the part about using a main dealer. Big mistake.

The matter of whether you need dedicated electrics or not is to some extent governed by the number of whistles and bells your intended towcar has and how big it is.

When I say how big I mean its towing capacity, physical size and drive system. You're only intending to tow an older Puck L with a sizeable four-wheel drive Kia which will pull a minimum of 1900 kilos. I doubt that's going to give the car too many headaches, and although there's some merit in having it and not needing it rather than needing it and not having it, I'd be surprised if your rig ever put the car's trailer stability control to the test.

I went through exactly the same thing when I put a towbar for our Puck L (a 2008 model) on our Audi. Big car, permanent four wheel drive, self-levelling suspension, a towing capacity of rather more than two tonnes and a very large bill for a dedicated electrics installation.

I went for a universal installation, and thus far - even though a Troll has replaced the Puck - I haven't had any reason to regret it.

I'm not saying don't do it. All I'm saying is that the decision might benefit from a little more weighing up before emptying your wallet onto the oily counter top at the towbar fitter's place.

As far as the whistles and bells aspect is concerned, I mean whether your car has (or will have) reversing sensors, and whether their operation is likely to be compromised by the fitting of a towbar and non-dedicated electrics. I don't know, but a bit of Googling should help you find out.

I don't have reversing sensors on the Audi for two reasons - firstly, they cost extra at the time, and secondly I reckoned that if I couldn't reverse without their help I should be stocking up on tonic wine and copies of The People's Friend instead of driving.

The other thing that dedicated electrics will do is turn off the car's rear foglight(s) when the caravan is plugged in and the foglights are on to stop the light reflecting back off the face of the van. That isn't a big issue either - you can get an inexpensive relay which any towbar fitter can install which will do the same job.

We've never had occasion to tow in the fog at night, and as far as I was concerned if we did ever have to do this and the red glow in the mirror got to be too much I could just take the bulb out for the duration.

If you can afford the dedicated 13 pin then go for it, absolutely, making sure that the cabling which runs to the van fridge and the leisure battery terminals in the car's socket is as heavy a gauge as it needs to be.

If you can't necessarily afford the whole nine yards, it's perfectly possible to do it safely and for less without ending up driving a wobbly liability which is right on the edge of becoming a pile of hardboard, pans and pillows at the bottom of a mountain pass in Scotland.

People were towing caravans long before the advent of trailer stability programs and glossy brochures full of electronic initials like ABS, ASR, ECU and ESP and they didn't all end their holidays on the back of a flatbed truck by the side of the M6.

.

yy-R56kh

Last edited Mon May 23, 2016 4:47 pm | Scroll up

RE: Puck L Towbar puzzle - there must be a simple answer

in Anything Eriba-related Mon May 23, 2016 4:05 pm
by Ribski •

| 1.468 Posts

"It will have to have a leisure battery for power-mover "

Are you sure that it's possible to fit a 'mover' to the old style Puck L ? This is the model I have, the chassis is vey low and I was under the impression that fitting a mover is not that easy or recommended

I may be wrong, perhaps others on the Forum may have better information