12v electrics when towing - confusing!
12v electrics when towing - confusing!
in Anything Eriba-related Wed Aug 31, 2016 1:07 pmby Aaron Calder • | 3.834 Posts
This morning with the aid of my glamorous assistant cum holiday ironing contractor, I have been checking what happens electrically when the caravan is attached to the car.
1. EHU connected, car ignition off - green light on fridge on; red light off; green light on Schaudt booster off; 13.8v on voltmeter
2. EHU disconnected, car ignition off - all lights off; 13.7v
3. EHU disconnected, car ignition on; engine not running - red light on fridge on; green light on Schaudt booster on; 14.3v
4. EHU disconnected, car engine running at idle - red light on fridge on; audible click from Schaudt booster and green light on booster on; 14.3v
5. EHU disconnected, car engine blipped to 2000rpm - exactly same as 4 above.
I am now confused as it would appear that when the van is attached to the car with the ignition on, there is power to the fridge and booster whether or not the engine is running. I had expected the booster and the fridge relay to kick in as the engine revs rose but it didn't appear to make any difference.
This would suggest that if I were to turn off the engine but omitted to turn the ignition off, I would risk draining the car battery. It's not what I expected to find.
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2003 Triton 420 and Audi A4 2.0Tfsi S-line SE Cabriolet
RE: 12v electrics when towing - confusing!
in Anything Eriba-related Wed Aug 31, 2016 1:20 pmby Randa france • | 13.261 Posts
RE: 12v electrics when towing - confusing!
in Anything Eriba-related Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:10 pmby JohnE (deleted)
Hi Brian
As Roger said, that's a sod .
If the fridge and booster has previously worked correctly then there may be a problem with the split charge relay in the car. Some 'smart' relays have an adjustment to vary the switching threshold and it would be worth testing its output with your voltmeter.
Otherwise you'll need to check the wiring's correct at the 13 pin junction box under the van.
There are 2 x white sheathed 2-core cables that run from the junction box. One cable feeds permanent 12v for leisure battery charging (input to booster) and the other is ignition-on (D+) which energises the booster and also supplies the fridge via the BIP's fridge relay.
If you need any further help you can give me a bell.
I've forgotten what I was going to say...
RE: 12v electrics when towing - confusing!
in Anything Eriba-related Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:43 pmby Aaron Calder • | 3.834 Posts
Oh, heck!
I'm heading to France tomorrow, John, so any further investigation will have to wait until I return in October. If I hadn't done the check this morning I wouldn't have known that anything was amiss so I'll just have to continue as it is for the time being as the fridge and the booster are both working when towing.
As you will probably recall, I replaced the 13 core cable from car to junction box not that long ago and cut the existing wires leaving tails before making the new connections so I'm pretty sure that I got it right. I can't recall noticing the white sheathed two-core cables that you mention. If they are incorrectly wired then they've been like like that since I bought the van in 2011 (and probably ex-Cernay.)
The car has Westfalia dedicated electrics hidden somewhere behind a panel in the boot and there's no way I'd dare muck about with that.
Is it likely that said two-core cables are on the wrong terminals and simply need swapping over?
These are the pics that I took of the inside of the junction box. can you identify the ones under discussion?
Juncbox01.jpg - Bild entfernt (keine Rechte) Juncbox02.jpg - Bild entfernt (keine Rechte)
There's always something that needs sorting out, and just when I thought all was tickety-boo!
Forum Administrator
2003 Triton 420 and Audi A4 2.0Tfsi S-line SE Cabriolet
RE: 12v electrics when towing - confusing!
in Anything Eriba-related Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:04 pmby Deeps (deleted)
Quote: Aaron Calder wrote in post #4
The car has Westfalia dedicated electrics hidden somewhere behind a panel in the boot and there's no way I'd dare muck about with that.
It sounds as though there is a possibility that although you've got 13-Pin dedicated electrics some twit has connect the fridge feed to the permanent current at Pin 9. There's no need to go fiddling about behind any panels in the boot because it's simply a case of checking the colour/pattern of cable wired up to Pin 10 and see if the same cable is attached at the front end of the car to a relay switched into the ignition. Should be behind a pull-out panel either under the bonnet or at the front end where the fuses sit.
RE: 12v electrics when towing - confusing!
in Anything Eriba-related Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:02 pmby Aaron Calder • | 3.834 Posts
Thanks, Deeps. That sounds like something worth checking but as I said earlier, it will have to wait until we get back from our hols. as we leave tomorrow morning.
I'm assuming that although the system will drain the car battery should I leave the ignition on without the engine running, the chances of my doing that are slim.
If the towbar fitter did wire the car wrongly, it has been like that for four years without any adverse effect so another four weeks shouldn't be a problem.
Or am I, as so often is the case, missing something?
Forum Administrator
2003 Triton 420 and Audi A4 2.0Tfsi S-line SE Cabriolet
RE: 12v electrics when towing - confusing!
in Anything Eriba-related Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:13 pmby Deeps (deleted)
Quote: Aaron Calder wrote in post #6
Or am I, as so often is the case, missing something?
Not really. When on site you'll be pulling the plug so to speak (13-Pin plug) so if the fridge has possibly been wired to the vehicles permanent current this is not going to enter the equation anyway. I've only ever been witness to tuggers pulling the plug on long overnight ferry crossings although I feel sure that some are probably doing this more from habit than from necessity. Just ensure that you limit motorway rest stops to one cup of tea and not a bucket full.
RE: 12v electrics when towing - confusing!
in Anything Eriba-related Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:17 pmby Aaron Calder • | 3.834 Posts
RE: 12v electrics when towing - confusing!
in Anything Eriba-related Wed Aug 31, 2016 6:53 pmby JohnE (deleted)
Quote: Aaron Calder wrote in post #8
But when the ignition is off, the lights on the fridge and the booster go out so it shouldn't be a problem.]
To check if the two cables I mentioned are incorrectly wired, swap the Booster's Input and D+ cables and see if it now works as advertised.
This won't fix the fridge side of the problem, but will confirm the wiring. You'll need to change the cables back after the check.
Anyway, as you say, when the ignition's off you shouldn't be draining the car's battery.
Have a great holiday!
John
I've forgotten what I was going to say...
RE: 12v electrics when towing - confusing!
in Anything Eriba-related Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:46 pmby Eribanut • | 2.026 Posts
Quote: Aaron Calder wrote in post #1
This morning with the aid of my glamorous assistant cum holiday ironing contractor, I have been checking what happens electrically when the caravan is attached to the car.
1. EHU connected, car ignition off - green light on fridge on; red light off; green light on Schaudt booster off; 13.8v on voltmeter
2. EHU disconnected, car ignition off - all lights off; 13.7v
3. EHU disconnected, car ignition on; engine not running - red light on fridge on; green light on Schaudt booster on; 14.3v
4. EHU disconnected, car engine running at idle - red light on fridge on; audible click from Schaudt booster and green light on booster on; 14.3v
5. EHU disconnected, car engine blipped to 2000rpm - exactly same as 4 above.
I am now confused as it would appear that when the van is attached to the car with the ignition on, there is power to the fridge and booster whether or not the engine is running. I had expected the booster and the fridge relay to kick in as the engine revs rose but it didn't appear to make any difference.
This would suggest that if I were to turn off the engine but omitted to turn the ignition off, I would risk draining the car battery. It's not what I expected to find.
Hmmmmm must check mine before we leave for France !
Sermo datur cunctis; animi sapientia paucis
Tempus fugit; carpe diem
RE: 12v electrics when towing - confusing!
in Anything Eriba-related Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:47 pmby Frantone (deleted)
Glamorous assistant or electrics?
🤔
Troll gently nudging up against Galaxy.
RE: 12v electrics when towing - confusing!
in Anything Eriba-related Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:12 pmby Julie Grafo • | 3.555 Posts
Apparently I'm a banksman (for reversing), useless navigator, expert curry cook, sommelier (wine whatsit for them what don't parlez the French), keeper of the cash and the font of all knowledge. I think he may be creeping with the last one, wonder what he wants?
Triton 420GT pushing Honda CRV SE 1.6 i-DTEC
RE: 12v electrics when towing - confusing!
in Anything Eriba-related Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:49 pmby Eribanut • | 2.026 Posts
RE: 12v electrics when towing - confusing!
in Anything Eriba-related Wed Aug 31, 2016 11:14 pmby Addick100 (deleted)
Simple way to check your car electrics.....
Take the locating lug inside the socket on the car as 6 o'clock. 5 mins past the hour is pin 9 and should have a permanent live feed. 10 mins past the hour is pin 10. This is the fridge feed and should be dead until the engine is started and the alternator gives a higher enough voltage to operate the relay, ffitted as part of the car towing electrics, and then goes live.
Turn off the engine and you should see the voltage on this pin drop until the relay releases and the feed goes dead.
Anything else means the car electrics are wired up incorrectly....
Ian
Ian & Linz Troll 540 being dragged around by a Kia Sportage KX-4
RE: 12v electrics when towing - confusing!
in Anything Eriba-related Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:23 amby Deeps (deleted)
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