#1

Awning light 12v supply

in Improving your pride and joy and how to fix things Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:21 pm
by Len Amey (deleted)
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I'm in the process of modernising the electrics on our Troll & puzzled as to why the Awning light is on it's own 5 amp fuse & un - rectified. Can anyone throw any light on the subject (no pun intended)?


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#2

RE: Awning light 12v supply

in Improving your pride and joy and how to fix things Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:09 pm
by Aaron Calder | 3.834 Posts

I'm no electrician (JohnE will attest to that) but could it be something to do with the requirement that the awning light must not be capable of being used when the caravan is being towed?

I don't know if you have seen the 'How to....' that I wrote on modernising BIP electrics but there's a paragraph towards the end that refers to the awning light only being operable when mains current is connected. (See Here)


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Last edited Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:16 pm | Scroll up

#3

RE: Awning light 12v supply

in Improving your pride and joy and how to fix things Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:45 pm
by Ray Lawrence | 671 Posts

This is a problem if you don't use electric hook up like me. I quickly found this out and moved the supply to another terminal that was permanently live.

I wasn't aware at the time that there was a law requiring this and it's daft that Eriba have used this method without thought for off grid users.

For the legal pedantic people, I have come up with my own solution which is to fit a normally closed relay with the permanent live running through the contacts. The relay coil is energised with a supply from the tow car, this means that the supply to the awning light is inhibited when the car is connected to a tow car. A simple and effective solution I think.
Works OK for me anyway


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Last edited Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:46 pm | Scroll up

#4

RE: Awning light 12v supply

in Improving your pride and joy and how to fix things Fri Jul 27, 2018 3:52 pm
by Aaron Calder | 3.834 Posts

I don't think that observing the law is being 'legally pedantic', particularly when contravention can result in being pulled over by the traffic police, prevented from continuing a journey and subsequently fined.

Here's the relevant legislation

Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989

PART II
REGULATIONS GOVERNING THE FITTING OF LAMPS, REFLECTORS, REAR MARKINGS AND DEVICES

Colour of light shown by lamps and reflectors

11. (1) No vehicle shall be fitted with a lamp which is capable of showing a red light to the front, except–

11. (2) No vehicle shall be fitted with a lamp which is capable of showing any light to the rear, other than a red light, except (42 exceptions are listed, none of which relates to a caravan)


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#5

RE: Awning light 12v supply

in Improving your pride and joy and how to fix things Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:09 am
by Suzywong (deleted)
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We’ve just swopped our eriba, and have discovered the awning light works off grid ( the previous one didn’t ) it’s a Troll 540 2012. Once you switch the 12v switch hey presto it works.
I’ve just spent the weekend, without EHU, so nice discovery


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#6

RE: Awning light 12v supply

in Improving your pride and joy and how to fix things Sat Jul 28, 2018 1:23 pm
by Ray Lawrence | 671 Posts

Interesting read, thank you

Sorry about the "legal pedantry" description, perhaps I have too much of the free spirit or traveller in me, hence my love of caravans

There are many points that could be argued about the exceptions but I'm not here for that debate, merely to point out that Hymer were remiss in providing a van with an awning lamp that cannot be used off grid.

It would appear that later vans have addressed this issue with a 12V switch. ( Can you travel with that switch on though?)

My modification also works and complies with the regs .


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Last edited Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:08 pm | Scroll up

#7

RE: Awning light 12v supply

in Improving your pride and joy and how to fix things Sat Jul 28, 2018 1:47 pm
by Len Amey (deleted)
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Hi Aaron,
I had read your 'how to' but having read so many articles on caravan electrics recently, I'd almost lost the will to live by the time I got round to yours i'm afraid. I do vaguely remember that bit but it didn't sink in, anyway, I've been asleep since then :-)

I can see the reasoning behind it now, just hadn't made the connection.
It's obviously designed as a failsafe but having read your post above & skimmed through the regs it would appear that it's not a legal requirement to have the awning light automatically isolated from the supply whilst driving, only that it is illegal to show a white light to the rear so, in theory you could just rely on switching it off manually, it would only be illegal if you forgot.

To all intents & purposes, I could classify ours as a side marker, our door is at the back of the van & the awning light is behind it facing forward, saves mucking about with a relay.


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#8

RE: Awning light 12v supply

in Improving your pride and joy and how to fix things Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:18 pm
by Ray Lawrence | 671 Posts

Hi Len,
you have a good point there and I have just checked my awning light. The cover prevents it showing to the rear anyway, even if left on.
Needn't have bothered with my relay after all

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#9

RE: Awning light 12v supply

in Improving your pride and joy and how to fix things Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:32 pm
by Suzywong (deleted)
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I believe,but haven’t tried it, potentially you could drive with the 12 volt switch on, ( We will test the theory next time we hook up )

Our electrics are as such, 240 on EHU supplies fridge, water boiler and warm air heating and sockets
12 volt supply all of our lights, taps, toilet pump, cool air fan and the mover.

Also the 240 volts supplies 12v smoothed by the battery, the previous owners had nearly all the extras one could get !


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#10

RE: Awning light 12v supply

in Improving your pride and joy and how to fix things Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:41 pm
by Aaron Calder | 3.834 Posts

I think this is the important bit: " No vehicle shall be fitted with a lamp which is capable of showing any light to the rear, other than a red light,

So, if an awning lamp could be left switched on while towing (and I think you will find that it can't) then it would constitute an offence under the Regulations.

I think (and of course may be wrong) that the majority of that particular design of awning light are fitted horizontally rather than vertically.


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#11

RE: Awning light 12v supply

in Improving your pride and joy and how to fix things Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:19 pm
by Pepé Le Pew | 2.752 Posts

Quote: Aaron Calder wrote in post #10
So, if an awning lamp could be left switched on while towing (and I think you will find that it can't) then it would constitute an offence under the Regulations.
I don't doubt that it would, but you'd have to be either leaving a white line of crack cocaine up the M6 or trailing cannabis smoke like a wounded Messerschmitt to be given a blast of the blues and twos and have your electrics given the once over.

And you'd have to be massively unlucky to cross the path of a traffic policeman of any description these days anyway.

Not that I'm advocating having an awning light which can be switched on while the car's attached, of course (though I must confess I've never checked ours to see); I'm just putting the infraction in the context of all the massively overloaded caravans you see being towed by rusted-out flatbed Transits, or ancient Peugeot estates full of un-belted children and a fat git behind the wheel with a fag in his mouth which clearly never get pulled over for anything at all.

If I found out that by some quirk of wiring - and whose Eriba doesn't have at least one of those - that our awning light could be turned on when it shouldn't be able to be, I think I'd probably just add making sure that it wasn't on to the list of things you need to check before setting off.

.



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Last edited Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:20 pm | Scroll up

#12

RE: Awning light 12v supply

in Improving your pride and joy and how to fix things Sat Jul 28, 2018 3:25 pm
by Len Amey (deleted)
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You can leave it switched on, it just won't light up.

It's become clearer now that the old method of ensuring it wouldn't stay on was to isolate it at the transformer, no good for off grid. The modern method is to isolate it via the fridge/habitation relay which isolates the 12 v internal electrics whilst towing except for the fridge.

I have a relay hard soldered to the board in my BIP which I wrongly assumed was doing the job hence my original post, it's obvious now, that mine is isolated at the transformer not by the relay.

As I said above, my awning light faces forward & is in the same orientation as Ray's so can't show a light to the rear. I'm going to have to fit a new habitation relay anyway so will link it to that.


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